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I'm seeing this myth more and more--that fewer people own guns, and just own more of them, yadda yadda.


Even if true, so what?

I bet .05% of individuals own 90% of the newspapers. What does that have to do with the First Amendment?

2: I'm well-placed to debunk this.  If millions of people were getting rid of their guns, then one of two things would happen.  

2a} your local police station would have people lined up to turn in guns for destruction. Call them and ask. They're going to laugh at you.

2b] your local gun store would have people lined up to sell their guns, the market value would plummet, and I'd be buying used guns for twenty bucks a pop.  I only wish that were the case.

c; If this were a thing, it would mean fewer gun owners, so why the urgent panic to pass more laws?  The "problem" would be correcting itself, just as smoking is a dying habit.

IV: In other words, it's morally corrupt, intellectually dishonest bullshit from left wing cowards with small penises. As usual.

The Math of Church Shootings
Jul 26, 201612:07AM

Category: General

Taken from various sources and lists, including Wikipedia. Archiving for reference as a secondary source.

February 14, 2010 - Richmond, California - Three hooded men walk into Gethsemane Church of God in Christ and opened fire and then fled the scene, as the singing of the choir was replaced by frightened screams. The two victims, a 14-year-old boy and a 19-year-old man, were hospitalized.--shooters were hooded, unknown race. Town is mixed demographically, unknown victims.

March 8, 2009 - Maryville, Illinois - Suspect Terry Joe Sedlacek, 27, of Troy, walks into the First Baptist Church, and shoots pastor Fred Winters dead, point blank. Several church members are injured by a knife in the struggle to capture after the attack, The suspect also had stabbed himself, but survived, when his gun jams.--white attacker, probable white victims, per names and local demographics

July 27, 2008 - Knoxville, Tennessee - A gunman opens fire in a church during a youth performance, killing two people and injuring seven.--Jim D. Adkisson.  White shooter, white victims.

Dec. 9, 2007 - Colorado - Three people are killed and five wounded in two shooting rampages, one at a missionary school in suburban Denver and one at a church in Colorado Springs. The gunman in the second incident is killed by a guard.--probable white gunman and victim, per names

May 20, 2007 - Moscow, Idaho - A standoff between police and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one police officer.--white shooter, white victims

Aug. 12, 2007 - Neosho, Missouri - First Congregational Church - 3 killed - Eiken Elam Saimon shot and killed the pastor and two deacons and wounded five others.--Micronesian shooter, probably white victims

May 21, 2006 - Baton Rouge, Louisiana - The Ministry of Jesus Christ Church - 4 killed - The four at the church who were shot were members of Erica Bell's family; she was abducted and murdered elsewhere; Bell's mother, church pastor Claudia Brown, was seriously wounded - Anthony Bell, 25, was the shooter.--black shooter, black victims

Feb. 26, 2006 - Detroit, Michigan - Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed + shooter - Kevin L. Collins, who reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend, later killed himself.--black shooter, black victims

April 9, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - A 27-year-old airman died after being shot at a church, where he had once worked as a security guard.--given the demographics of the area, probably a black shooter and black victims

March 12, 2005 - Brookfield, Wisconsin - Living Church of God - 7 killed + shooter - Terry Ratzmann opened fire on the congregation, killing seven and wounding four before taking his own life.--white shooter and victims

July 30, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - World Changers Church International - shooter killed - Air Force Staff Sgt. John Givens was shot five times by a police officer after charging the officer, following violent behavior.--from article, attacker probably black

 Second more recent shooting at same church--black shooter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v8Y_pY4sIE

Dec. 17, 2004, Garden Grove, Calif.: A veteran musician at the Crystal Cathedral shoots himself to death after a nine -hour standoff.--suicide

Oct. 5, 2003 - Atlanta, Georgia - Turner Monumental AME Church - 2 killed + shooter - Shelia Wilson walked into the church while preparations are being made for service and shot the pastor, her mother and then herself.-black on black violence, domestic incident

June 10, 2002 - Conception, Missouri - Benedictine monastery - 2 killed + shooter - Lloyd Robert Jeffress shot four monks in the monastery killing two and wounding two, before killing himself.

March 12, 2002 - Lynbrook, New York - Our Lady of Peace Catholic Church - 2 killed - Peter Troy, a former mental patient, opens fire during Mass, killing the priest and a parishioner. He later receives a life sentence.--unknown, names and location suggest white

May 18, 2001 - Hopkinsville, Kentucky - Greater Oak Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed - Frederick Radford stood up in the middle of a revival service and began shooting at his estranged wife, Nicole Radford,  killing her and a woman trying to help her.--black on black domestic incident.

Sept. 15, 1999 - Fort Worth, Texas - Wedgewood Baptist Church - 7 killed + shooter - Larry Gene Ashbrook shot dead seven people and injured a further seven at a concert by Christian rock group Forty Days in Fort Worth, Texas before killing himself.--victims appear to be mostly white

April 15, 1999 - Salt Lake City, Utah - LDS Church Family History Library - 2 killed + shooter - Sergei Babarin, 70, with a history of mental illness, entered the library, killed two people and wounded four others before he was gunned down by police.--victims white

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/18/from-bombings-to-fires-to-shootings-partial-list-attacks-on-black-churches-in/ — June 1996: Then-President Bill Clinton appoints a task force to investigate a spate of church fires, particularly at black churches in the rural South. Of 670 incidents that were investigated nationwide by October 1998, 225 involved black churches.

Looks like blacks kill a lot more black worshippers than whites. black shooters. And whites tend to target other whites. THAT is your pattern.  You can dislike facts, but you can't ignore them.  But doesn't it make sense that they're usually pissed off at someone in their own community?

As to burnings, it will take more time than available to ID the perps in those cases, but the sheer number suggests a small group dedicated to the task, and even then, black churches are only slightly over-represented on a demographic basis.

Does not include the more recent SC church shooting that was definitely racial in nature, with a white shooter and black victims.

Once again, we have a high profile shooting, and once again, the hysteria is out in force.

Let's start with some facts:  If you don't shoot, or have only occasionally shot on a range, then your opinion on how useful an armed respondent would be is garbage.  If you don't drive a car, you aren't qualified to tell professional drivers what they should have done in an accident.

Seriously, shut up, you're an idiot.

Second, everything is a cost-benefit and risk analysis.  Would a defensive shooter have made a difference? We can never know. We can know that it has helped before.

Here are some ways it can help:

The defensive shooter engages the hostile. The hostile must choose to ignore, take cover, or return fire.

If he chooses to ignore it, he remains a target and the odds of him being shot increase, and if he is shot, the engagement ends, and no further lives are lost. If this happens before he quits or runs out of ammo, it is a NET POSITIVE for the group.

If he takes cover, he is not shooting for a few moments, and in that few moments, more people can escape or formulate an attack. (Barstools can be as deadly as bullets, when thrown or swung.)  NET POSITIVE.

If he returns fire, anyone not in the cone near the defensive shooter is not being shot at. This is a NET POSITIVE for all those people, and a slight negative for those in the defender's immediate position.

It is possible the defender will hit a bystander in the process.  However, as he is deliberately choosing a single hostile target, the odds still improve for the remainder, and if the hostile is hit, the engagement stops. This is probably still a net positive.

The defender may be hit. Negative for him, but he accepted that risk. And in those few seconds, the fact is that more victims can escape or respond. This is still a NET POSITIVE for the GROUP.

Yes, the defender may decide his best course of action is to flee. If so...there is no negative nor positive for the group. They remain as they were.

But, this assumes an engagement takes place. Knowing certain areas contain a lot of defensive shooters, attackers tend to avoid them. NET POSITIVE for the group.

The only way to imagine a major negative is to assume that everyone carrying a gun for defense is some psychotic nutjob just waiting to break and spray bullets. There are zero studies or statistics to support this allegation.

This belief comes about from several issues. First, hoplophobia--a fear of weapons.  

Occasionally, it comes from projection. A person with poor impulse control assumes everyone else likewise is prone to outbursts, and of course, if they have a gun, they might act out with it, even though that occurence is demonstrably very rare. The overwhelming majority public and/or mass shootings are premeditated. They even frequently project their small penises into the argument. (Yes, that was deliberate contempt and turnabout on my part.)

Most commonly, it comes from fear and helplessness.  The promoter of these memes knows that in such an event, they'd be helpless, crying, and nothing but a victim waiting to be slaughtered.  More terrifying than that is the notion that NOT EVERYONE IS.  Some people might actually be able to control such a situation.  This means those people are more competent than the poster. It's a frightening notion that random death can visit us, but more offensive and jealous-making is the idea that it isn't just random, that some can change the odds in their favor and not be victims.

The sheep mentality, particularly among "liberals," is that everyone must be equal--equally poor, equally ignorant, equally helpless.

The only thing more outrageous than a killer is inequality, wherein better people (sometimes) survive. The most important thing to these people is to convince the competent that they're really not, or at least convince themselves of that, even if it takes trite, ignorant meme wars and blocking those who'd inform them otherwise.

They don't want education, they cherish their ignorance and fear. 

And they're what's wrong with humanity.

While some say we should pity them, I hold that their deliberate, cherished ignorance and cowardice makes them unsalvageable.

Simply remind them that they're worthless cowards, and be the best prepapred person you can be.  It may not matter, but it will not hurt.

BTW, if every building has fire extinguishers, why do we still have fires?



Orlando: The AAR and BFTNP
Jun 14, 201612:15AM

Category: Politics

This is going to be part pep talk and part "There there, here's a foot in your ass."

The Orlando shooting was not your fault. You bear no guilt and no shame. By embracing guilt and shame you give the terrorists what they want. Stop it. That way lies madness. 

THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. First, it's over. Second, even the experts who should have prevented it couldn't.  I'm somewhat trained in this field, and I'm not going to second guess them.  Even the best preventive measures have cracks. 20/20 hindsight on what the guy said, did, or owned is pointless.

THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT, PART 2.  Are you a lawyer?  Political scientist? Threat analyst?  Weapons expert?  Security consultant?  If not, then really, you have nothing to say. Smarter, better-educated people than you have looked at every possible aspect you might suddenly imagine is new and clever, long before you did, and wrote the book.

NO, REALLY, YOU'RE NOT THAT CLEVER.  Really. It's easy to say ban this, restrict that, watch these people, do these things.  In reality those things are impossible, and wouldn't matter if they were.  There is no gun you can ban to prevent Sept 11 or the Oklahoma City Bombing. There is no fertilizer you can ban to prevent the Boston Marathon bombing. There is no pressure cooker you can ban to prevent the Bath School Disaster. There is no boxcutter you can ban to prevent the Tokyo Subway Attack.

Nothing.  Terrorists will find a way.

MAKING YOURSELF MORE HELPLESS HELPS NO ONE.  "I don't need guns," you say. I know more about guns than you, and you're wrong.  You may not want any, and that's fine, that's your decision to make, FOR YOU, not for me, nor anyone else.  "I couldn't have done anything."  You're right. So stop trying to Monday Morning Quarterback the whole thing. "Nobody needs an AR15."  Again, you're wrong, and at this point you should be reminded of the Dunning-Kruger effect. 

See this article here: http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com/blog/index.php?itemid=219

Get that?  Access to firearms is a constitutionally protected right, and SCOTUS  says so, the end.

I could just as well argue that the 24 hour news cycle (CNN earns more money in 24 hours of ad revenue than the NRA gets in donations all year. Follow the money) extols, glamorizes and encourages these type of things.  How about my idea for a 24 hour choke on news?  What, First Amendment?  You're going to let an outdated document stand in the way of safety? WHY DO YOU SUPPORT TERRORISTS?

There, now wasn't that productive? I came up with a logical solution, and insulted you when you dissented. Now we're both on the same page.

And those people are still dead.

Next time, we'll talk about how your ridiculous "right" to internet in the house means you support child molesters, and your "right" to drink means you support drunk drivers.

The time after a disaster is a time for calm, not a time for attacking your fellow countrymen with differing beliefs and opinions.

Because that's how ISIS started.

BFTNP:  Blame For The Non-Participants.

US Civil War:  Democrats fought to keep their slaves.

1 million casualties.

Democrat James K Polk, Mexican-American War.

17,000 casualties.

WWI--Democrat Woodrow Wilson and a Democrat Congress authorized the carrying of war materiel on US merchant ships, thus making those ships legitimate military targets.

320,000 casualties.

WWII--Democrat FDR and a Democrat Congress authorized the carrying of war materiel on US merchant ships, and naval vessels to protect such ships and fire on German commerce raiders, thus initiating violence against a foreign power.  

1,076,000 casualties.

Korea--Democrat Harry Truman and a Democrat Congress authorized US involvement in a land war in Asia.

128,000 casualties.

Vietnam--Democrat Harry Truman authorized economic aid for another land war in Asia. Democrat JFK sent the first combat troops. Lyndon BJ sent thousands more US combat troops, all under Democrat Congresses.

211,000 casualties.

Dominican Republic--Democrat Lyndon BJ

330 casualties.


75% of violent criminals identify as Democrats.

The solution is obvious.

Outlaw the Democratic Party under RICO, arrest and jail all members, and US violence will largely disappear.

A Song!
Mar 15, 201611:13PM

Category: General

Chris Dow came up with this catchy tune in response to the term "Trumpeteers."

Who's the leader of the club that hates our whole country? D-O-N---A-L-D---T-R-U-M-P!

Come along and join the club that's filled with bigotry.




Forever let us hold our hands up high! HEIL HEIL HEIL!

This needs some more work.

I told my friends this needed to be a thing.

Dick Evans came up with this script:


This is Old Spice, this is New Spice, These are the Spice girls (BANG BANG BANG) - That's Splatter Art! Old Spice!

This is me offending you with out deodorant. This is me doing the exact same thing with deodorant on! Guess where.

This is me on a horse that's now a Unicorn, this is me having my way with the unicorn... actually that's it. Old Spice


Now someone needs to film it.


You can get a free sampler at the above URL, and the complete book will have my story, "The Digital Kid."

We're trying for 2113 pre-orders, for the symmetry.

Several of us were having a nice, friendly sargasm when this person stopped by to tell all of us she knows more about us than we do, what horrible people we are, and why can't we be just like her ideal?

We declined the invitation.


Wyman Cooke shared Sean Faircloth's photo — with Michael Z. Williamson and Tad Williams.

Unless Vermin Supreme wins, in which case it'll be The First Outright Lunitic President.




 George Avery I would complain about the insult if I were a flesh-eating lizard person

 Patrick Culley I for one welcome our new reptilian overlords.

 Garry Hamilton First communist president. I don't think he's our first Jewish guy.

 Michael Z. Williamson He is, but is he practicing Jew or just sort of Jewish?

 James Stepanek he's not practicing at all from what I understand

 George Avery Lieberman was the first Jewish candidate for President OR Vice President. We have never had a Jewish President or Vice President. Barry Goldwater was of Jewish ancestry, but an Episcopalian.

 Ivan Batinic Fuck you and your Trump -ass holiness

 Garry Hamilton Jewish or not, active or not, his deep commitment to the principles of communism is more important and significant.

 Garry Hamilton Ivan Batinic ... ???

 Ivan Batinic I don't think he's communist. But I should not assume that meant you wee pro Trump. I hate texting.

 Catherine Baker If only you understood what communism was, but then you wouldn't be an murikan.

 Garry Hamilton A little research will help with that. I'm married to a researcher. I get that stuff for free. He's a commie. I'm not gonna bother with nuance and hedging. And I don't give a rat's rectum who the GOP puts up, I will vote for him and campaign for him. There is no scenario where I vote for a communist or a pathological liar/traitor, and that's all the Dems have put forward this time out.

 Catherine Baker Uh huh. I'm sure someone with a sold gold conservative mindset was *strongly* considering voting D. No really, totes believe you, dude.

 Keith Beavis


  Liam McCumber But can he get the trains to run on time?

 Garry Hamilton Conservative. Heh. I chuckled.

 Michael Z. Williamson There are Dems I will vote for. Hillary, Bernie and Trump are not three of them. Yes, Trump is much closer to a Dem than a Rep. Bernie is a socialist, not a liberal, and Hillary is a right-statist. I also wasn't born an American, know exactly what a communist is, and can even invoke former Soviets to discuss it with you. In fact, let me do that. Nicki Kenyon, Oleg Volk, please enlighten the lady. Tossing around ego will not get you anywhere on my wall.

 Nicki Kenyon


  Nicki Kenyon I just love how American born ignorants who have never lived the horror try to privilegesplain to those of us who have what communism is. I'm so done with these people!

 Henry Willard Garry, the kind of Scandinavian-style Nordic capitalism/social democracy that Bernie Sanders promotes and communism aren't even in the same wing of economic spectrum. The Nordic model works within the capitalist system -- private ownership of enterprise still runs the show from the industrial level down to the small business level. What social democracy, or 'democratic socialism' does, is to have a universal redistributionist policy where the goal is to create as much financial equality -and- individual financial autonomy as possible. In Nordic countries, their corporations and capital are seen to serve their own citizens, as opposed to the United States where a handful of private individuals (regardless of their nationality and regardless of what they intend to do with that money) can own and extract huge streams of money from the American economy and do whatever they want with it, even if its antagonistic to American interests. You might not agree with Nordic capitalism, but it is not communism, because there is no command economy there. If you still believe it to be, can you please share with us your broad definition of communism? Because if in your view communism means 'redistribution' (which is not correct), then I have news for you: the US is by that definition communist, because the government redistributes billions of dollars from taxpayers to wealthy corporations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

 Michael Z. Williamson Henry Willard Actually, the government redistributes money FROM corporations, which is to say, from the customers. And your definition of US capitalism is biased to the point of caricature.

 Garry Hamilton I've lived in Scandinavia. Several years. Had a couple of marriages, a couple of kids there. The idealized perception that some Americans have of Denmark is quite distorted. I'm sure that, with actual research, this could be corrected, but research doesn't seem to be in vogue lately. When I tell you that we really don't want Denmark in America, it's not derived from rumors, biased reportage, or Wikipedia. My love for the Danes does not transfer to their system of government. Socialism really, really doesn't work. You can flavor it all you like, but it's fundamentally broken. What is this obsession with trying to find the clean end of that turd? It's busted. Quit confirming Einstein's definition of insanity, and let's embrace the only thing that has lifted mankind out of its native state of poverty. Command economies don't work. Parasite economies don't work. Free enterprise works. Let's do that.

 Henry Willard Where did you live in Denmark? What did you do? I'm sorry if I sound skeptical, but half the conservatives I've spoken to about it have apparently lived in Scandinavia, which I find an astounding fact. I've traveled there and have friends who live in Copenhagen and Stavanger, so I don't really account your argument for authority to hold much weight because I know the economies are doing well by virtually any metric. Do you believe Denmark to be a command economy, and why do you think their system of government is flawed? Having lived there, I'm sure you're aware, the government has no control of industrial production and companies like Novo Nordisk and Mærsk do, and all of the Scandinavian countries (including Denmark) have a higher % of small business employment and a higher % of self-employment than the USA does. So by what measure is Denmark a 'command economy' and by what metrics are you judging these economies? Denmark has a higher standard of living than the US and an after-tax higher median income bolstered by extremely high wages compared to the US. https://cepr.net/.../publications/small-business-2009-08.pdf

 Garry Hamilton I lived in Copenhagen. I was an international telex operator, among other things. My first in-laws lived in Goteborg/Gothenburg. My second in-laws lived in Farum, outside Copenhagen. He worked as an engineer for the the country's foremost elevator manufacturer. Had his own car. Free-standing house. Very well to do, by Danish standards. Capital flight laws. Horrific taxation. "Free" medical (both kids). "Free" education. Paid for with those horrific taxes. I was making low wages, and my tax rate was 40%. If it hadn't been for subsidies (via my wife) we could not have afforded our cold water flat. Higher standard of living? My "standard of living" was a freaking cold water flat. And that was subsidized, cuz Danish wife. Have you BEEN there? You have any idea what it costs to drive a stinking car over there? Like I said, the US perception is distorted and romanticized. My advice to those who want to live "like they do in Denmark" is GO LIVE THERE. If you're still happy after ten years, change your citizenship. I won't be the least bit offended. Me, I've been. I'm staying here. And I'm not adopting a parasitic taxation and "free everything" model.

 Henry Willard I know people who live in Copenhagen who have the opposite experience, and I can show you some horror stories of folks who live with me here in Texas. Shall we compare and contrast? Forbes Magazine's #1 Best Country for Business? Denmark. Highest investment rating in Europe, highest monetary freedom. So tell me another one about capital flight and how it's communist, please. http://www.forbes.com/places/denmark/

 Denmark - Forbes

Denmark #1 Best Countries for Business - Forbes


 Garry Hamilton Capital flight laws may have changed. Dunno. It's been nearly forty years. I don't believe I said capital flight laws were communist. I do, however, find them oppressive. Your mileage may vary. Enjoy your stay there. I'll be here, suffering, in the States. 


 Adam Newton Historic/Catastrophic same difference...

*edit to add, I'm OK with Cruz being elected...

 Michael Z. Williamson Only racists would oppose Cruz or question his citizenship.

 Edward Lindeman I think he is a douche. does that make me a bigot?

 Curtis Pritchard wow I am not a racist and I oppose Cruz and I also do not think he should be allowed to be Pres. he had a Non-American Father and born in Canada so to me I will not vote for him on that if you feel that makes me a racist then you are just wrong. it only means I have a right to choose whomever I want for whatever reason.

 Michael Z. Williamson Curtis Pritchard No, but that makes you anti-immigrant, even though legally he's not an immigrant.

 Adam Newton Michael Williamson, or he's just willfully ignorant to the laws regarding qualification for presidency.

 Curtis Pritchard I do not think it does my wife was not born here so your wrong on that as well I will not vote for any foreign born for Pres. its a preference it makes me American since I have the right to chose with my vote and Adam I am not ignorant of the Law I went to law school I just do not believe anyone should be Pres if not born on American soil.

 Adam Newton What you believe or feel doesn't change what's been the law for far longer than you've been alive...

 Curtis Pritchard I did not say it did what I said was my opinion which is my right and that it does not make me a racist.

 Curtis Pritchard and for the record the clause being used to say he is eligible is ambiguous and can be or may need clarity by the Supreme Court


 Michael Z. Williamson I need to see evidence that Hillary is female. No, not photos, thank you.

 Richard K. Hopkins Those could be faked either through Photoshop or surgery.

 Robert Vance Like everything else in her life.

 Judy Rudek Be careful what you wish for... Rule 34, you know...

 Alan French Video...

 Thomas Stewart Alan French I think the video has her with Janet Reno. You have been warned.

 Alan French No, the one I'm thinking of is Ron Jeremy with Hillary and Maggy Thacher...


Catherine Baker So many misogynists, so little effort.

 Nick Gardner And who exactly are the misogynists?

 Catherine Baker As this is the first post you've made in this thread, it seems likely that you are not under discussion. Isn't that nice?

 Michael Z. Williamson Not at all. There are numerous women qualified to be president. Hillary is not one of them. Just as there are many black men qualified to be president. 0bama is not one of them. I don't think Trump or Bernie are qualified either. That doesn't make me anti-business or anti-semitic. Hillary is a detestable human being. Were she theoretically male, I'd ask for proof she was actually a man. But we can easily see who the sexist is in the thread.

 Catherine Baker And who better than a white man to explain, using small words, to wimmenz and blacks just what moveable bar they need to jump to be 'qualified'. Yes, yes, you can name THOUSANDS of black men who would be qualified. Or ten. Maybe. Because... black. Or wimmenz.

Michael Z. Williamson Catherine Baker Obviously, you came here to insult people, not have a debate. I bet you wonder why no one likes you.

Michael Z. Williamson Catherine Baker I'm noting your anti-immigrant sentiment, though. I bet you think you can justify it somehow.

 Catherine Baker My mum emigrated. My grandparents emigrated. My great-grandparents emigrated. My nieces & nephews have emigrated. Yep. I'm all anti-immigrant. How well you know me. I came to bring what everyone else does - a pov. It doesn't include accepting racism and misogyny silently -- oops. Bad wommanz.

 Michael Z. Williamson Catherine Baker Oh, yes, some of your family were immigrants. Well, that makes it all okay, then. The only racist and sexist in the thread is you. In fact, you seem to know everything about every segment of society, and can tell people you've never met exactly what they're thinking and why they're wrong about it. Perhaps there's a point in there.

 Robert Boyer Fuck you Catherine. How about that? If someone disagrees with you then they're a misogynist. Eat a slimy dick. There you should feel great. That's what I would tell a man who was an asshole.

 Nathan Gayle Maybe, She has the,"Gift," us Menz lack...

 Michael Z. Williamson I don't think anyone here is anti-woman. Just anti-Catherine, because she's obnoxious. If everyone you meet is an "ist," it could be you're the noun they're ist against, not any group.

 Rick Drayson Why is it that in an age where so many Feminists are pushing to end the stereotype that females are illogical, none too intelligent and overly emotional that there are so many Feminists like Catherine Baker being fucking stupid sexist illogical retards

 Brad Johnson I've been watching this thread for a while now, from what I've seen all you have done is reply to fairly civil discourse with nothing but insults and condescension. BTW: you do know that there is a difference between "immigrate" and "emigrate" right?

 Rick Drayson Brad Johnson Can't take the Cunt out of Feminist

 Brad Johnson Well, there are feminists and Feminists. One you can actually have a civil discussion with and the other is pretty much this.

 Rick Drayson Brad Johnson What mythological creature do you speak of? I have only met the vile man hating rabid cultist(feminist) and the people who ASSume that they are feminist without knowing one thing about feminist ideology

 Michael Z. Williamson I think there should be more women in this thread. Amanda Fuesting, Heather Morgan, are you free?

 Rick Drayson Michael Z. Williamson The number of female anti-feminists is very heartening and certainly growing. (me assuming that those two you mentioned are that)

 Catherine Baker If only women would state their views in a manner pleasing to men. That's the problem, right there. Not saying shit men don't want to hear in a way they'll be happy to hear it.

 Brad Johnson No, the problem is you being rude and obnoxious. Simple as that. If you can't manage simple civility then you are worthy only of scorn and insults. Male or female makes no difference in that regard. BTW you never answered my question: Do you know the difference between "immigrate" and "emigrate?"

 Rick Drayson Catherine Baker Did Daddy walk out on you and Mumma? There is no better time than the present to start talking about your hatred of men which is normally caused by Daddy issues

 Catherine Baker Offering an opinion while female. I guess its almost as offensive as accepting Hillary as female without getting to personally finger her to be really sure. But why would anyone find that comment rude? Its just being politically thorough, and a woman who would find that offensive obviously has daddy issues. Cuz... well, they're female, so duh.

 Michael Z. Williamson Catherine Baker But you demand men express opinions in a manner pleasing to women. Sexist.

 Michael Z. Williamson Please, gentlemen, don' t call her a cunt. Cunts have warmth and depth.

 Michael Z. Williamson Catherine Baker Gender is distinct from sex. One can be physically one sex and identify chromosomally or psychologically as either or both. So you're also transphobic. Looks like anyone who disagrees with you is somehow wrong, and you're right about everything. You know more about communism than escaped Soviets, more about Judaism than practicing Jews, more about immigration than immigrants, more about Hispanic issues than Hispanics. All of us were having a discussion and some humor at the whole thing, and you stomped in to tell us we're all wrong and some sort of ---ist because you don't like it. You're a complete piece of shit. And you'd still be a complete piece of shit if you were a trangender black atheist male.

 John Kincaid Read this whole side thread. Shook my head wondering why someone would start shit like this. Dropping a bullshit comment meant to inflame people that had nothing to do with the original post. If you get butthurt over your treatment here Catherine, just refer to this jewel posted on your wall:


  Brett Bowen Let me get this straight. Not endorsing Obama or Hillary means you are a racist or a sexist. Did I get that right? And thinking they are terrible for the position means that you are arbitrarily moving the bar because you're a racist, sexist, patriarchal menace? Boils down to: you can't disagree with any of her designated candidates without being an "ist". And no defensible arguments have been put forth.

 Robert Boyer She's a misandrist ass. Simple as that.

 Heather Morgan I say shit men don't like all the time. I say shit women don't like too. The difference, dear special snowflake, is knowing why and when it's appropriate. And feminists don't see men as scary or hateful. We're supposed to be equal you twat, not special. Sexism is treating others different because of gender. So far Catherine, all i see is you. Way to play the victim. Do you carry your own outline chalk too?


Pater Familias What makes one a "Jew"? A theological belief or DNA? Consider what makes one a Muslim? Theology or DNA? Can one believe a theology and not practice it? If one does not practice a theology does one truely believe it? How would you know? If one claims to be something and does not live according to what that thing is what then is that person actually? A liar? A hypocrite? A fool? How much does one's DNA influence their behavior & beliefs? How would you know? What is more important, DNA, stated beliefs or pattern and practice of behavior?

 Steve Shook You can be a Jew by DNA or Theology, but you can only be a Muslim by theology.

Catherine Baker Obviously there is only one right or wrong answer, and I suspect you're in charge of setting the parameters.

 Garry Hamilton Traditionally, "Jewish-ness" is transmitted through the maternal side. I had this explained to me once, but I must confess I didn't quite grasp why that is. In the moslem world, I've been told that the son of a moslem is presumptively moslem. From what I understand, it's bad juju (like capital-bad) for a moslem's son to adopt a different faith. Again, my understanding is thin here.

 Steve Shook Science sets the rules, even though you can convert into Judaism itself the truth is Jews are a race of people, Muslims are not in anyway a singular race, regardless of anyone's philosophical prattle that remains an unalterable fact.

 Ivan Batinic OMG. I'm ducking out -- Ciao!

 Catherine Baker Ah, the confession. "Why iz wimmenz impoortant?" is a good question, and obviously "They not ever" is the answer. Your understanding isn't thin, it's Murikan! and therefore cannot be thicked, which is just eurononsense anyway.

 Steve Shook Catherine Baker What's that all about?

 Garry Hamilton She presumes to know the mind of someone across the interwebz. There is no clue, but at least there's certainty.

 Catherine Baker Well... let's just keep our minds on the "jewishness", shall we?

 Steve Shook It was the question.

 Michael Z. Williamson Jews actually do generally have genetic markers, being an insular people for the last several thousand years. Muslims are much broader spread, more proselytizing, and can be of any genetics whatsoever including South Asian, Pacific, East Asian, Altaic, Caucasian, North African and Berber, Central African, South African and any mix in between.

 Garry Hamilton It was asked. I proposed an answer. If the answer is wrong, I can always be enlightened. Not by a troll, of course, but a little light is always welcome.

 Michael Z. Williamson Garry Hamilton You were correct.

 Catherine Baker Troll: someone who doesn't agree with you

 Michael Z. Williamson Catherine Baker As you have proven, repeatedly.

 Steve Shook


  Robert Boyer No a fucking douche like you, Kitty. There, I ensmalled your name, go and cry foul.

 Michael Z. Williamson Catherine Baker wommenz weren't even mentioned in this thread, other than as a legitimate part of Jewish tradition. So, your own statements mark you so far as anti-semitic, racist, sexist, and anti-immigrant. Do you want to tell Nicki Kenyon all about communism now, since she escaped from the USSR in the 80s and obviously can't know anything about the subject?

 Robert Boyer A non Liberal female's opinion means nothing.

 Steve Weinberg I think trying to parse Judaism as a "race" vs. a "theology" is going to be.... complicated. How much DNA do my German and Lithuanian forbears share? With the Sephardim? With the Ethiopians? I will note that there does to be some genetic commonality in the Cohain caste.

 Nicki Kenyon Michael Z. Williamson escaped JEW no less. Why do you bother with idiots?

 Eric Tank Nicki, I suspect masochism is at play - they seem to seek him out.

 Michael Z. Williamson Nicki Kenyon I have no idea where she showed up from. Not my Flist.

 Michael Z. Williamson Catherine Baker has explained it, Steve Weinberg. What do you know? You're only a Jew. And male.

 Nicki Kenyon Eric Tank possibly. I've always thought Mike was a bit of a nut magnet. Must be why he and I get along so well.

 Eric Tank He certainly prompts interesting conversations. Which most of us really appreciate, especially the parts that drive the rest to frothing at the mouth.


 Jason Cordova Please. I doubt that Vermin Supreme would be our first lunatic president.

 Michael Z. Williamson He might be our best.

 Jason Cordova I'll give you that

 Robert Boyer First openly lunatic. 


Brad Johnson


 Rachel Dunlop Oh shit the lizard people have figured out how to access the internet!

 Doug Harrell My herpetology is weak. My first impression was that the picture is a komodo, rather than a monitor. However, after exhaustive research, I have concluded you are not dragon the wrong lizard into the comments...

 Ray Ficara Doug Harrell Komodos are monitorts. THe largest of the genus. BTW I used to have 5 at work reclining in a hot tub all day. They thought we were their maids.


 Dave M West Jr Cruz would also be the first president who isn't a natural born citizen...

 Seth Breidbart Not even close. George Washington was the first.

 Dave M West Jr A fair point, but it doesn't make Cruz any more eligible.

 Phillip Miehm Do you even citizenship? American mother, natural born American citizen. So, unless you have evidence that she renounced her citizenship at some point prior to his birth, Cruz is eligible. Even if he is an idiot.

 James R McCain Jr Only for idiots who dont know what a natural born citizen is as evidently you do not.

 Dave M West Jr Sure if you have no clue what the law actually says. Being called idiot by an idiot is actually a pretty strong compliment.

 Phillip Miehm Luckily for us, you are wrong. Ted Cruz is as much a natural born citizen as I am.

 Dave M West Jr Nope. Born in Canada to a US citizen and a Cuban national. Non-military births outside US territories require BOTH parents to be US citizens for the child to be considered a 'natural born citizen' which is a requirement of being the US president. Last time I checked Canada was a sovereign nation outside of US territory. All of this is easily researched if you're interested in actual knowledge instead of simple bias confirmation. Something tells me you aren't though.

 Michael Z. Williamson Dave M West Jr Please cite the SCOTUS ruling on what constitutes a "natural born" citizen.

While you look for that, you'll find that State Dept regs mandate ONE American parent who has lived 14 years in the US prior to the child's birth.

 We don't need and Cruz birthers.

 Dave M West Jr I've got some bad news for you: you're going to have Cruz Birthers if he gets the nomination. Count on it.


 Dave M West Jr LOL that's actually pretty funny.

Over the Hedge:

This is the story of RJ, a raccoon (Quisquiliae Ailurapoda) who is a textbook thieving socialist.  We start the movie with him stealing from a hibernating bear. Despite cautioning himself to only "take what he needs," he tries to steal everything on hand, including the food from the bear's paws. Once a socialist has an opening, they will always go too far, and RJ does. 

RJ gets caught, and resorts to fast talking and promises of extravagant returns if only the bear won't kill him, arguing that if the bear does, he'll have to repeat all that labor himself.  The bear grudgingly grants a grace period for compensation of RJ's crimes, and releases him on parole.

Denied a Have to leech off, RJ scavenges through trash for food and finds little.  He takes his bag of minimal possessions and goes stalking a new subdivision of Haves he hopes to exploit for the debt he's already acquired, and the resources he needs moving forward. This uncannily matches every Five Year Plan the USSR ever had. 

Without shills, Socialists starve, so he also seeks accomplices.  He finds them in the form of a motley band of foragers just waking from hibernation.

Being a dedicated socialist, he goes full Bernie Sanders, persuading the foragers that they can have all the good stuff for free, just by taking it from the leftovers of the Haves. They do so, oblivious of the wreckage they leave behind. RJ is aware, but doesn't care.  There's always more loot to be had.

Vern, the patriarchal conservative tortoise, loudly denounces RJ as taking advantage of the gullibility and stupidity of the group.  Offended by his presentation of documentable truth, they turn away from him entirely, and hug socialism to their bosoms. Hilarity and disaster ensue, as they always do, because socialists are gullible and stupid and never learn.

When an exterminator, representing capitalist power, is brought in, they realize they should retreat to safety and live within their means, but once again, RJ the Politician persuades them that enough just isn't enough, that they must enter the very homes of the people and steal goods directly.

Keep in mind this is to enrich himself personally by his position, and pay off the bear who has a legal claim against his very life if he doesn't furnish compensation. The bear represents a bank or investor who acted in good faith, but was screwed over by claims of "fairness."  RJ is a textbook democrat, stealing with one hand, lying about it, and feeding his sponsor with the other hand lest he become lunch himself.

The house is a shambles, the homeowner imprisoned for attempting to defend her premises, the exterminator deemed a villain for attempting to enforce the rules of society, and the bear is forcibly removed from the home where he was doing nothing wrong.  What was a functional system is totally destroyed.

And the socialists retreat to the life they had before, enhanced by the rotting remains of capitalist production, blissfully unaware that when it runs out they'll return to the edge of starvation. Then they'll repeat this pattern of behavior, and wonder why it never works out in the end, and why exterminators keep coming to kill them.

AFTERNOTE: It does deserve credit for showing the dangers of energy drinks on excitable youth.